Good Idea or Wild, Wild West

Two county sheriffs are instructing deputies on how to carry out a new law effective June 13 that will make a concealed weapons permit optional for anyone legally allowed to carry a gun and eliminate the requirement that individuals promptly notify police officers that they are carrying a concealed weapon.

The measure was introduced by GOP state Sen. Terry Johnson of southern Ohio's Scioto County, who said it eliminates a discrepancy in Ohio law that currently allows people to openly carry a gun.

Gun owners can still apply for a concealed weapons permit under the legislation, allowing those who obtain it to carry a concealed weapon in states with reciprocity agreements recognizing such permits.

Mercer County Sheriff Jeff Grey and Auglaize County Sheriff Michael Vorhees have different opinions on the the so-called "Constitutional Carry" measure but agree it will impact law enforcement.

"The idea behind constitutional carry is the people that are out there to do harm to us, they don't know who's carrying a gun and who's not," Grey said. "So I think the bigger benefit is it is a deterrent to crime. I think criminals have to be very, very concerned about who has a gun and who can defend themselves."

Grey noted he's a strong supporter of the Second Amendment.

"I don't worry about law-abiding people having firearms. I worry about the bad guys having firearms and they're going to do their thing whether we have a law or not," he said

Vorhees too emphasized that he's "very pro-Second Amendment" and absolutely believes in the right to bear arms. Yet he has reservations about the new law, saying he doesn't outright oppose it but isn't completely in favor of it either.

"I didn't understand what they were trying to do. There's a system that's in place with CCW (concealed carry permit) that I feel works. I like the CCW system," he said.

That system, he insisted, ensures accountability for people who commit violent crimes.

"I'm concerned now that there's not too much accountability," he said. "The law abiding citizens I'm not worried about. It's the people that shouldn't have a firearm. It's going to make it easier for them just to strap it on and go and that's my concern."

Under the current law, any person carrying a concealed handgun as a CCW licensee must promptly inform the officer about the concealed handgun. Come June 13, individuals have to confirm they are carrying a weapon only if asked by an officer.

"We'll train the deputies to ask," Grey said when asked how it will change law enforcement in Mercer County. "Most people are pretty good at telling us that they have a conceal carry permit and whether they have their firearm or don't have it."

Deputies are much more apt to be concerned about weapons when responding to violent situations than during normal interactions, Grey said.

"Obviously if we're there because there was a fight or that kind of stuff then we're going to be more cautious but if we stop you because you're driving a little too fast and you have a gun on and you tell us about it, OK, great. No big deal." he said.

In fact, Grey said he made a suggestion through the state sheriff's association that made it into the new law. It pertained to gutting the requirement that a driver tell an officer they're carrying a weapon.  

"Part of the reason for that was because some law enforcement officers were over-
aggressive on, 'You didn't tell me fast enough,' so I understand why they wanted to take that out," he said.

Conversely, though, dangerous situations can arise if a law officer doesn't know if a person has a weapon.

"For example, if I stop you for speeding and I don't know you have a gun. You reach back to get your billfold, get your driver's license. There's a gun back there. I don't know if you're reaching for the gun or for your billfold and bad things could happen."

Grey came up with a way to assuage those fears.

"OK, if you're worried about people not telling us fast enough, why don't we put the burden on law enforcement to ask? If we ask you, you have to tell us," he said. "That was my suggestion."

Vorhees also weighed in on how the new measure will impact how deputies enforce law in Auglaize County.

"They don't ask (now) because it's the duty of the people that have the CCW to notify law enforcement and it's also on there when we run the registration. If the registered owner has a CCW then our officer knows that from the dispatch," he said.

In a little over a month, the onus of weapon disclosure will fall on deputies. Vorhees said he's been very upfront with deputies on how to approach traffic stops in the near future. More discussions will be held before June 13.

"So yeah it will change," Vorhees said. "I think you'll see more law enforcement officers, some of their first questions may be, 'Are you carrying a weapon?' which is perfectly legal to do because I would want to know when I approach a vehicle if someone has a weapon in there."

Auglaize County CCW holders have generally been cooperative when dealing with law enforcement, Vorhees pointed out.

"The people that go for a CCW are very respectful," he said. "They're law-abiding citizens and they're good people and we don't have hardly any problems at all with that."

Both sheriffs will maintain concealed handgun licensing for those who still wish to get a permit, whether to carry concealed weapons in states with reciprocity agreements with Ohio or any other reason, they said.  

Permits must be renewed every five years. They may be suspended, revoked or denied based on an individual's criminal charges, violations and convictions and other considerations.

Last year, Ohio sheriffs issued 202,920 new or renewed conceal carry licenses, a 20% increase over 2020, the Ohio Attorney General's Office said. Sheriffs denied licenses to 2,668 applicants who didn't meet state-mandated requirements and revoked 420 licenses for such things as felony convictions and mental incompetence.

In Mercer County, 656 new permits were issued in 2013, 205 in 2014, 331 in 2015, 645 in 2016, 402 in 2017, 351 in 2018, 317 in 2019, 624 in 2020, 654 in 2021 and 27 so far this year, per statistics provided by the sheriff's office.

Vorhees and Grey urge people who have little to no experience with firearms to undergo training if they decide to carry a weapon but not pursue a CCW after June 13.

"I would encourage people, if you're going to carry, get some kind of training," Grey said, pointing out some area gun shops host training classes. "The NRA course that they did for conceal carry, that's a good course. That is a good, basic safety course."

Grey also stressed the importance of gun safety and proper storage.

"When you get home at night where are you putting that gun, especially if you have children in your house?" Grey asked.

Vorhees too drove home the importance of gun safety. He's concerned people caught up in road rage incidents may reach for a gun instead of trying to extract themselves in other ways.

"Your first course of action should be to remove yourself from that situation, if you can. If your life is threatened, that's a different story, but I think people need to use caution, be careful," he said. "Common sense plays a long way in things and just be smart."

The Buckeye Firearms Association said 21 other states allow people to carry a concealed weapon without a license. Gun control groups such as Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America opposed it, as did law enforcement groups concerned about the legislation's lack of required training.

The Ohio Democratic Party accused the governor of caving "to special interest groups and extremists," saying the measure "will make all Ohioans less safe."

However, Grey doesn't believe widespread harm will result from the new law.

"You hear people say we're going to go back to the wild west days. I don't believe that," he said. "Everybody thought we were going to have all kinds of problems when conceal carry came in and we started issuing (permits). We don't have problems with that and I don't think it's a problem across the state. It's a very small, small minority of people that have their conceal carry permits suspended or revoked."

- The Associated Press contributed to the story.